QUEEN ANT IDENTIFICATION NEEDED!!! VERY AGRESSIVE!!!

Help with identifying the species your ants

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antsjonland
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:32 am
Location: thailand

QUEEN ANT IDENTIFICATION NEEDED!!! VERY AGRESSIVE!!!

Post: # 33238Post antsjonland
Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:03 pm

Hello boys and girls,

Recently I found 2 very interesting queen ants. But I have no idea what species they are.

The first one I found in Thailand. Around 1 month ago, she lay already eggs but, they dont seem to grow. She is around 1cm long.
She was also very agressive and pulled alot of cotton.

https://imgur.com/a/NxVXM

Her back seem to a bit small dues she need some food?


The second I found was in Bali(Indonesia) around 3 weeks ago. She is around 1,9cm long and has also
already some eggs which not seem to grow in size.

https://imgur.com/H14CN7s

Does she need a more natural setup?


Can anyone help me here?

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Phoenix
Posts: 644
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:17 pm
Location: Malaysia

Re: ID Request

Post: # 33239Post Phoenix
Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:22 am

Queen 1 - Polyrachis Sp.
Queen 2 - Camponotus Sp.

Question 1:
Did You Seriously Bring A Queen Across Country Borders?
'Have Fun.' - Gabe Newell

antsjonland
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:32 am
Location: thailand

Re: ID Request

Post: # 33255Post antsjonland
Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:40 am

Phoenix wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:22 am
Queen 1 - Polyrachis Sp.
Queen 2 - Camponotus Sp.

Question 1:
Did You Seriously Bring A Queen Across Country Borders?
Thank you Sir!

Yes, why are you asking?

JackPayne
Posts: 291
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:28 am
Location: Australia,NSW

Re: ID Request

Post: # 33262Post JackPayne
Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:29 pm

antsjonland wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:40 am
Phoenix wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:22 am
Queen 1 - Polyrachis Sp.
Queen 2 - Camponotus Sp.

Question 1:
Did You Seriously Bring A Queen Across Country Borders?
Thank you Sir!

Yes, why are you asking?
It's seriously illegal, as well as it can endanger the native flora and fauna of your home country. That was a terrible decision to make.
Hi I'm Jack, How are you?

YSTheAnt
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:53 am
Location: Bay Area

Re: QUEEN ANT IDENTIFICATION NEEDED!!! VERY AGRESSIVE!!!

Post: # 33546Post YSTheAnt
Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:18 am

It's illegal in the US, not really anywhere else though. At least not that I know of.
Check out my blog: bayareaants.blogspot.com
Keeper of:
Camponotus Modoc(6 workers)
Pheidole Spp (2 queens, about 10 workers)
Possibly parasitic Formica (further ID required)
Novomessor Cockerelli (10+ workers)

Martialis
Posts: 1577
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:30 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: QUEEN ANT IDENTIFICATION NEEDED!!! VERY AGRESSIVE!!!

Post: # 33570Post Martialis
Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:10 pm

I'm not sure about Thailand, but it is definitely illegal in Canada, New Zealand, and Australia in addition to the U.S.
Keeper of

Selliing:

JDSweetMeat
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat May 25, 2019 1:41 pm
Location: Centralia, Illinois

Re: QUEEN ANT IDENTIFICATION NEEDED!!! VERY AGRESSIVE!!!

Post: # 65954Post JDSweetMeat
Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:29 pm

Martialis wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:10 pm
I'm not sure about Thailand, but it is definitely illegal in Canada, New Zealand, and Australia in addition to the U.S.
I mean, technically it's only illegal if OP gets caught. I don't see any ethical issues with moving an ant from region to region. I also don't feel that we are ethically bound to follow laws that are unethical. I actually believe that (1) ant transportation bans are mostly untethical, and (2) we are ethically bound to actively defy unethical laws.

The ethical issues I've seen operate under the assumption that:

1.) Ants have natural rights; I don't believe that *any* organism, humans included, has any objective natural rights. Hence my rejection of the ethical dilemma here.

2.) The species may hurt local humans and fauna. I find this very unlikely in most cases. The only species at any true risk in most cases are other ant species (i.e. if local species contract a non-native pathogen from a specimen escapee). And even then, it's unlikely that any pathogen will be able to infect all the local ant species, meaning uninfectable species will simply rise to take the place of the destroyed local populations in the food chain.

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MadVampy
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Re: QUEEN ANT IDENTIFICATION NEEDED!!! VERY AGRESSIVE!!!

Post: # 65955Post MadVampy
Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:25 pm

JDSweetMeat wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:29 pm
Martialis wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:10 pm
I'm not sure about Thailand, but it is definitely illegal in Canada, New Zealand, and Australia in addition to the U.S.
I mean, technically it's only illegal if OP gets caught. I don't see any ethical issues with moving an ant from region to region. I also don't feel that we are ethically bound to follow laws that are unethical. I actually believe that (1) ant transportation bans are mostly untethical, and (2) we are ethically bound to actively defy unethical laws.

The ethical issues I've seen operate under the assumption that:

1.) Ants have natural rights; I don't believe that *any* organism, humans included, has any objective natural rights. Hence my rejection of the ethical dilemma here.

2.) The species may hurt local humans and fauna. I find this very unlikely in most cases. The only species at any true risk in most cases are other ant species (i.e. if local species contract a non-native pathogen from a specimen escapee). And even then, it's unlikely that any pathogen will be able to infect all the local ant species, meaning uninfectable species will simply rise to take the place of the destroyed local populations in the food chain.
Laws are there for a reason. As far as the impact on the location they are being taken too can be very large. Take the Solenopsis ant, they were brought into the USA by accident via plants and other cargo that wasn't inspected properly. They have taken very large tolls on other ants, plants animals, humans, and even machinery. These laws are in place to help avoid that.

AntsCanada fully supports the laws put in place by countries and will continue to do so. Taking ants into a country that they are deemed illegal is is not only illegal but irresponsible on the ant keeper. JDSWEETMEAT you may want to do some research on the impact that plants, animals, and insects that don't belong in a specific area has. This is one of the reasons the AntsCanada GAN project is in place, #1 to help bring the ability of ant keeping to others and also #2 make sure it's done in a legal way.

"I mean, technically it's only illegal if OP gets caught." yes even though that's true it still doesn't make it right or legal. This is one reason AntsCanada doesn't allow trading, selling, or giving away of ants on the forums and directs any such action to the AntsCanada GAN project. Any one caught doing so will be warned and or banned on the forums and if it's found to be a large scale thing on that persons behalf they will be reported to the proper authorities.
MadVampy

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Name is also Mike but please don't confuse me with Mikey Bustos, two different people. :lol:
Keeper of Solenopsis Ants. :twisted:

JDSweetMeat
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat May 25, 2019 1:41 pm
Location: Centralia, Illinois

Re: QUEEN ANT IDENTIFICATION NEEDED!!! VERY AGRESSIVE!!!

Post: # 65959Post JDSweetMeat
Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:33 am

MadVampy wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:25 pm
JDSweetMeat wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:29 pm
Martialis wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:10 pm
I'm not sure about Thailand, but it is definitely illegal in Canada, New Zealand, and Australia in addition to the U.S.
I mean, technically it's only illegal if OP gets caught. I don't see any ethical issues with moving an ant from region to region. I also don't feel that we are ethically bound to follow laws that are unethical. I actually believe that (1) ant transportation bans are mostly untethical, and (2) we are ethically bound to actively defy unethical laws.

The ethical issues I've seen operate under the assumption that:

1.) Ants have natural rights; I don't believe that *any* organism, humans included, has any objective natural rights. Hence my rejection of the ethical dilemma here.

2.) The species may hurt local humans and fauna. I find this very unlikely in most cases. The only species at any true risk in most cases are other ant species (i.e. if local species contract a non-native pathogen from a specimen escapee). And even then, it's unlikely that any pathogen will be able to infect all the local ant species, meaning uninfectable species will simply rise to take the place of the destroyed local populations in the food chain.
Laws are there for a reason. As far as the impact on the location they are being taken too can be very large. Take the Solenopsis ant, they were brought into the USA by accident via plants and other cargo that wasn't inspected properly. They have taken very large tolls on other ants, plants animals, humans, and even machinery. These laws are in place to help avoid that.

AntsCanada fully supports the laws put in place by countries and will continue to do so. Taking ants into a country that they are deemed illegal is is not only illegal but irresponsible on the ant keeper. JDSWEETMEAT you may want to do some research on the impact that plants, animals, and insects that don't belong in a specific area has. This is one of the reasons the AntsCanada GAN project is in place, #1 to help bring the ability of ant keeping to others and also #2 make sure it's done in a legal way.

"I mean, technically it's only illegal if OP gets caught." yes even though that's true it still doesn't make it right or legal. This is one reason AntsCanada doesn't allow trading, selling, or giving away of ants on the forums and directs any such action to the AntsCanada GAN project. Any one caught doing so will be warned and or banned on the forums and if it's found to be a large scale thing on that persons behalf they will be reported to the proper authorities.
1.) Solenopsis were brought to the US accidentally as stowaways. As far as I can tell, there is not a single recorded instance of an ant hobbyist allowing their pets to escape and wreak havoc on the ecosystem. Indeed, the problem is almost always non-hobbyists who have no clue what they're doing unknowingly bringing wild uncontained colonies across borders. Generally speaking, the types of people who are into ant-keeping are not the the types of people who grow bored of the hobby and allow their pet fireant colony to go free

2.) In addition, Solenopsis are extremely hardy ants, and are surprisingly adaptable. The vast majority of tropical ants, however, would struggle to survive outside of their native environments. Most ant colonies die out if they aren't kept in very specific conditions that only occur in very specific places. Mikey himself admits that you're more often than not wasting your time trying to keep non-native ants alive if you are new to the hobby/not able to sink crazy amounts of time, money, and effort into it.

3.) I am well aware of the fact that invasive species can damage native ecosystems. I'm also aware of the fact that very rarely do invasive species actually harm humans. As a counter-example to Solenopsis, I could point out half a dozen examples of invasive species that are wholly harmless (of most relevance would be Tetramorium). In the grand scheme of things, most invasive species are harmless (I really don't think high levels of native biodiversity is necessarily valuable though, so YMMV). I'd also like to point out that nature has proven incredibly good at compensating and adapting to our ****-ups. It's not as though the introduction of an ant species is going to cause the entire native foodchain to implode.

4.) I think it's *usually* a morally neutral action (though stinging ants are much more ethically dubious, as even if they can't survive long-term, a single escaped worker could put somebody in the hospital or a grave).

5.) I'm not sure why the whole "official company response" thing was mandated. I simply like discussing controversial topics, because anything worth making rules over is worth discussing. I personally don't keep non-native species (too much effort, not enough reward, and not enough money to afford proper setups for them). I personally wouldn't feel any obligation to discourage somebody with the time, money, and inclination to do it properly, though.

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MadVampy
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Re: QUEEN ANT IDENTIFICATION NEEDED!!! VERY AGRESSIVE!!!

Post: # 65968Post MadVampy
Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:41 pm

The statement was made from not only the company POV to help discourage the practice of taking any ant across state lines or country borders that do not allow a person to do so. Also it was made due to over 75% of the users on this forum never reading the rules for the AntsCanada Ant Forums.

AntsCanada Forum Rules -> https://forum.AntsCanada.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2

2) We support responsible ant keeping: Zero tolerance for importation of non-native ant species or shipment of live ant colonies. Only GAN Project posts are permitted. We also promote ETHICAL collecting of ant colonies. Always with owner's permission if collecting on private property, or with official collecting permits if collecting on public land or protected areas.

Have a great Day!
MadVampy

Head Forum Admin
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Name is also Mike but please don't confuse me with Mikey Bustos, two different people. :lol:
Keeper of Solenopsis Ants. :twisted:

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