New Ant Keeper need help identifying queens in IN,USA

Help with identifying the species your ants

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TDickman
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 1:11 pm
Location: Osgood,Indiana, USA

New Ant Keeper need help identifying queens in IN,USA

Post: # 70008Post TDickman
Sun May 17, 2020 3:03 pm

I have a lot of information in the imgur captions but I will give all the necessary information here for easy access.

I found her May 16 2020 around 7pm in southern Indiana, United States. It had rained before the sun had came up and then heavy patches until about 9am. It then turned out to one of the wamer nicer days in recent weeks.

She's 15mm+-1 in length. Her wings are gone except for a very small piece of one. Which I'm sorry to say the picture quality isn't the greatest but it's still kind of visable in the pictures.
Queen Ant
https://imgur.com/gallery/r8JrqIB

These next ones I wasn't sure they were queens at first because of how much smaller they were than the one I knew for sure was a queen. These I had actually found floating in a kiddy pool the following day, May 17, 2020.

They are approximately 10mm+-1 in length. They all still have there wings but there where also two drone leaving me to think these could be queens of a different species.
Possible Queen Ants https://imgur.com/gallery/aP5eOgH

I'm working on getting test tubes, I have never had a queen before but have been kind of looking for the past few years and just happened to get lucky with these!

NKantsalberta
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 6:48 pm
Location: Sherwood Park, Alberta

Re: New Ant Keeper need help identifying queens in IN,USA

Post: # 70009Post NKantsalberta
Sun May 17, 2020 3:09 pm

TDickman wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 3:03 pm
I have a lot of information in the imgur captions but I will give all the necessary information here for easy access.

I found her May 16 2020 around 7pm in southern Indiana, United States. It had rained before the sun had came up and then heavy patches until about 9am. It then turned out to one of the wamer nicer days in recent weeks.

She's 15mm+-1 in length. Her wings are gone except for a very small piece of one. Which I'm sorry to say the picture quality isn't the greatest but it's still kind of visable in the pictures.
Queen Ant
https://imgur.com/gallery/r8JrqIB

These next ones I wasn't sure they were queens at first because of how much smaller they were than the one I knew for sure was a queen. These I had actually found floating in a kiddy pool the following day, May 17, 2020.

They are approximately 10mm+-1 in length. They all still have there wings but there where also two drone leaving me to think these could be queens of a different species.
Possible Queen Ants https://imgur.com/gallery/aP5eOgH
Hi There!

The first Picture is definitely of a queen, Camponotus Sp.

The second set of pictures would be the male alates, most likely from the same species as the queen you found. Note the wasp-like appearance and long slender gaster.
Raising 3x Camponotus novaeboracensis, 2x Formica sp, 2x Lasius sp.

TDickman
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 1:11 pm
Location: Osgood,Indiana, USA

Re: New Ant Keeper need help identifying queens in IN,USA

Post: # 70010Post TDickman
Sun May 17, 2020 3:20 pm

Thank you so much!! I had a feeling she was a carpenter ant. I've seen the large workers around for years and based on some pictures she looked like one to me.

I really wasn't sure they were queens either. My first thought was that they were the drones for the queen I had until I saw the smaller drone in the sun today. But you're right their mouths even resembled a wasp. Thank you so much!! It makes me eager to keep up the hunt!

TDickman
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 1:11 pm
Location: Osgood,Indiana, USA

Re: New Ant Keeper need help identifying queens in IN,USA

Post: # 70011Post TDickman
Sun May 17, 2020 5:05 pm

NKantsalberta wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 3:09 pm
TDickman wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 3:03 pm
I have a lot of information in the imgur captions but I will give all the necessary information here for easy access.

I found her May 16 2020 around 7pm in southern Indiana, United States. It had rained before the sun had came up and then heavy patches until about 9am. It then turned out to one of the wamer nicer days in recent weeks.

She's 15mm+-1 in length. Her wings are gone except for a very small piece of one. Which I'm sorry to say the picture quality isn't the greatest but it's still kind of visable in the pictures.
Queen Ant
https://imgur.com/gallery/r8JrqIB

These next ones I wasn't sure they were queens at first because of how much smaller they were than the one I knew for sure was a queen. These I had actually found floating in a kiddy pool the following day, May 17, 2020.

They are approximately 10mm+-1 in length. They all still have there wings but there where also two drone leaving me to think these could be queens of a different species.
Possible Queen Ants https://imgur.com/gallery/aP5eOgH
Hi There!

The first Picture is definitely of a queen, Camponotus Sp.

The second set of pictures would be the male alates, most likely from the same species as the queen you found. Note the wasp-like appearance and long slender gaster.
Thank you for replying so fast! I just went out and found what I think is another queen!!

Found her today, May 17, 2020. She was under a rock on a pad of saw dust in a small depression.

She's approximately 5mm in length. It was really hard to get pictures because of how small she is but based on how wide her abdomen is and how she was kind of in a small hole in the saw dust I think she could have been settling to start laying. Let me know what u think!

Queen ant? Any idea what species if so? https://imgur.com/a/HtaZAVE

NKantsalberta
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 6:48 pm
Location: Sherwood Park, Alberta

Re: New Ant Keeper need help identifying queens in IN,USA

Post: # 70053Post NKantsalberta
Sun May 17, 2020 8:42 pm

TDickman wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 5:05 pm
NKantsalberta wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 3:09 pm
TDickman wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 3:03 pm
I have a lot of information in the imgur captions but I will give all the necessary information here for easy access.

I found her May 16 2020 around 7pm in southern Indiana, United States. It had rained before the sun had came up and then heavy patches until about 9am. It then turned out to one of the wamer nicer days in recent weeks.

She's 15mm+-1 in length. Her wings are gone except for a very small piece of one. Which I'm sorry to say the picture quality isn't the greatest but it's still kind of visable in the pictures.
Queen Ant
https://imgur.com/gallery/r8JrqIB

These next ones I wasn't sure they were queens at first because of how much smaller they were than the one I knew for sure was a queen. These I had actually found floating in a kiddy pool the following day, May 17, 2020.

They are approximately 10mm+-1 in length. They all still have there wings but there where also two drone leaving me to think these could be queens of a different species.
Possible Queen Ants https://imgur.com/gallery/aP5eOgH
Hi There!

The first Picture is definitely of a queen, Camponotus Sp.

The second set of pictures would be the male alates, most likely from the same species as the queen you found. Note the wasp-like appearance and long slender gaster.
Thank you for replying so fast! I just went out and found what I think is another queen!!

Found her today, May 17, 2020. She was under a rock on a pad of saw dust in a small depression.

She's approximately 5mm in length. It was really hard to get pictures because of how small she is but based on how wide her abdomen is and how she was kind of in a small hole in the saw dust I think she could have been settling to start laying. Let me know what u think!

Queen ant? Any idea what species if so? https://imgur.com/a/HtaZAVE
I just happened to pop online just after your post.

She looks to be similar to lasius queens. I am unsure if there are any species that small. Start your search on ant wiki for USA species, it may help narrow it down. Look at tapinoma species as well.
Raising 3x Camponotus novaeboracensis, 2x Formica sp, 2x Lasius sp.

TDickman
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 1:11 pm
Location: Osgood,Indiana, USA

Re: New Ant Keeper need help identifying queens in IN,USA

Post: # 70054Post TDickman
Sun May 17, 2020 9:25 pm

I just happened to pop online just after your post.

She looks to be similar to lasius queens. I am unsure if there are any species that small. Start your search on ant wiki for USA species, it may help narrow it down. Look at tapinoma species as well.
[/quote]

Thank you so much for your advice!! I'll see if I can find anything.

I went back out to that same spot and found a second one almost identical. I just raked up the saw dust a few milimeters deep and watched for any movement and sure enough there she was. I don't know if they were actually polygyne or if it was just a coincidence. Im not sure if that would help narrow it down either. I didn't take pictures but will be happy to do so if you think it would help or if us just want to see. I unfortunately ran out of pill bottles and have her in a mini sprite bottle until I get some vials.

I've wanted a self sustaining colony for a very long time and only just started trying to find queens these last three years. It's been pure luck I've found these. XD

NKantsalberta
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 6:48 pm
Location: Sherwood Park, Alberta

Re: New Ant Keeper need help identifying queens in IN,USA

Post: # 70055Post NKantsalberta
Sun May 17, 2020 10:07 pm

Tapinoma are polygyne, so it is a good possibility. Lasius are also known to found colonies with multiple queens, but eventually the more dominant queen will kill off the others, or the workers will. I can dig into yours a little further, as I am working on broadening my own knowledge of North American species. If you could get better pictures, or a more detailed description that would help narrow down the identity.

I have attempted to keep two lasius queens in captivity together during the founding stage, and as soon as pupae were present, one queen would always end up decapitated. But if Tapinoma, they should co-exist peacefully. If you are willing to take that risk, you could attempt to house the two together.

I have been part of the GAN for for two years now, and this has been one the slowest year for me finding queens. Congratulations on your finds so far!
Raising 3x Camponotus novaeboracensis, 2x Formica sp, 2x Lasius sp.

TDickman
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 1:11 pm
Location: Osgood,Indiana, USA

Re: New Ant Keeper need help identifying queens in IN,USA

Post: # 70056Post TDickman
Sun May 17, 2020 10:30 pm

Third Queen Ant https://imgur.com/gallery/KDq65xs

Here are some pictures of the second approximately 5mm in length queen. I'll see about using a differnet phone for better pictures but as far as I can tell both of the 5mm queens only have a single node. I'll have to see if I can find a magnifying lens to get a closer view but is there any thing specific I can/should be looking for that would help?

NKantsalberta
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 6:48 pm
Location: Sherwood Park, Alberta

Re: New Ant Keeper need help identifying queens in IN,USA

Post: # 70057Post NKantsalberta
Mon May 18, 2020 12:15 am

Differences between each species of a specific genus will sometimes require microscopic inspection. I am nowhere near an expert in this field.

But narrowing it down by size, gastral segments, nodules, mandible shape/position, head shape, presence of hairs and colouration is the best way to achieve the most accurate identification, with reference to Antwiki or Antweb . I wish I could help more past this point.

There is a user, Batspiderfish, who I believe has more credentials in this field, he/she may be of more assistance

I almost thought you could have found a winter ant, or false honey pot ant, but they seem too darkly coloured
Raising 3x Camponotus novaeboracensis, 2x Formica sp, 2x Lasius sp.

TDickman
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 1:11 pm
Location: Osgood,Indiana, USA

Re: New Ant Keeper need help identifying queens in IN,USA

Post: # 70216Post TDickman
Fri May 22, 2020 2:57 pm

I've got some good news and bad news. Due to keeper error the two 5mm queens I had didn't make it. As for the good news I found 6 more queens today!!!! They were all in the same piece of rotten wood next to my barn. I decided to try and break a piece off just for the sake of looking and sure enough there was a queen!! It was a piece destined for the burn pile anyway so I just broke it all apart looking. There was one queen just sitting chilling under it when I picked it up!!

Four are without a doubt Camponotus Sp. While i got you and if you're interested an update on my original Camponotus Sp she now has four eggs in her vial!!

Then I found what I think is a Camponotus Subbarbatus. I didnt measure her but im guessing shes around 10mm based on her size compared to the "Sp" queens. She was my second find of the day. I had managed to keep her chamber mostly intact( i found a Camponotus Sp on the same break who's chamber wasn't as lucky) I kinda cupped my hand around it to keep the light off her and she stayed in it while I ran to get a vial for her. It looked like she had a few eggs already started so I tried to get them with her but think i only managed to get one.

As I was getting the the end (or bottom) of this piece of wood I got into what was already an established colony. I figured since the piece was going on the burn pile and was too close to the barn anyway I went ahead and started breaking that up too just for the hope of finding one more queen. That's when a queen that looked like the two other 5mm queens came out! I think it was her colony and she probably won't make it but I kept her anyway.

Queen ant motherload! https://imgur.com/gallery/LYFYuJx

As you can see I've got vials now!! I'm keeping them in a wooden box with cotton balls to keep them from moving to much! I went from having no luck to hitting the mother load!!

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