a pro con post of wild vs store bought food.

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MorbidBugg
Posts: 285
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:11 pm
Location: Orangeville

a pro con post of wild vs store bought food.

Post: # 49868Post MorbidBugg
Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:45 pm

The pros and cons of wild vs farm raised.

Hello I had quite an internal struggle to figure the best place for this post but ultimately decided here. I want to make sure everyone understands beyond this post is ment for constructive positive and informational purposes. Please abide by all the forum rules and honestly polite etiquette. If this becomes heated I would not hold any grudges or negative feelings if it were to be removed or moved to controversial.

Now that the boring bits over with let us begin with the subject at hand the pros and cons of both wild caught insects and ant food vs. Store bought/farm raised feed.

After scouring the forums 5 years worth of come up pace of this actual topic I've noticed a trend. Blind unwavering support for either or, mixed with Confusion along with anecdotal and scientific basis. And I think we could all use a little bit of demystification on both sides. As it is important to the liveliness of our pets. This is not an all out bashing post I believe it is truly and ultimately YOUR choice as to how you feed your pets. And honestly you shouldn't feel ashamed or judged by anyone. Besides your pets, and as we all know they judge us whether we want them to or not. But I digress I shall take the wild pros and cons first and create a list then do the same with feed animals. Again I'm going to try and be as impartial as I can and feel free to add your own pros and cons.. but I ask if you do try and give us pros and cons of both sides and try and really experience, the best words for this would be the problems of the other side, if you will.
Wild insects

Cons:
-the biggest argument I have ever seen felt to this one is pesticides. Dependant on country this is probably the biggest con out there. However, this is highly dependant on country amd laws regulating what 'icides' can be used(there's a hidden pro here but a major con as well but thats for a different discussion all together)
-uncontrolled viral/fungi/mold/disease outbreak. Some insects carry a variety of parasites fungi and molds that can be quite devastating to a large colony that has spent years in a protected biome that can be destroyed with the introduction of a foreign body. And as we all know vets do not take in sick ants.
-potential risk of being harmful to the environment, there are people in this world who abuse whatever they are interested in. These people can, are and will do major unreversable damage to the environment without care. This is not everyone and I hope that number is smaller than it is but even the average person can do harm by ignorance so please make an attempt to learn about what you plan to feed them.

Pros
-virtually no extinguish able source of food. As the con said that while there is a chance of serious damage this could be avoided by simply picking up a book and learning. If you do not have that patience... your experience with ants may end as unappealing regardless of what was envisioned.

-a variety of diet. One of the main issues many keepers face is a lack of interest for whatever reason in feeder insects. Opening the wild insects as an offer allows your ants the best possible choices as they are not as restricted in their diet.

-A more humanitarian approach to some invasive species. Ants can be like little fire pits consuming anything they eat with relative ease. Or they have the most sensitive palates. If you own the former ant species, invasive species that do not hunt or by way harm ants through toxins or other can be a great way to deal with invasive species that are directly harming the natural species. Again it is imperative you study before feeding but I feel this is a win win option if you fall into that category

There are more pros and cons but I felt a 3x3 comparison is a good amount to really start with without being to exhaustive.

.
Ants are life's most successful invaders. Understand and respect that power.

MorbidBugg
Posts: 285
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:11 pm
Location: Orangeville

Re: a pro con post of wild vs store bought food.

Post: # 49869Post MorbidBugg
Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:46 pm

Store bought /farm raised feed

Cons
-nutritional subparity. Unlike wild insects these are usually raised with a very specific mono diet(never really changing) this could affect the actual nutrition your pets get. (Anyone who gets calcium or other chemical additives know that it is because the insect isn't at its max potential and secondary chemicals required)
-abusive conditions* the life cycle of a feeder insects go through their lives as a farm chicken it's only purpose to be dinner for later. This mentality amongst some people can borderline abusive thus affecting the quality of the insect. This usually goes for pet stores with under regulated rules and care guides for employees and this is why I put a star. To avoid this really invest in the person farming the insects talking about a common subject with someone will Help you become more aware of their personality ad well as opportunities to perhaps see their farms for yourself so you can be sure no abuse is taken.

-infection and disease Much like wild colonies farm raised can have a potential of being contaminated. The risk is far lower but there are grand implications such as this being a new super virus that developed unnoticed by the breeder and contaminates everything. I think in my opinion this one con tends to get over looked the most because it's a lower percentage but it still exsists.

Pros.
-Liability. When you purchase anything from a store you are given a self inflicted feeling of safety. As we have laws to protect us and our things. The a ility to see words that make us feel safe end up being a very pleasant thought. If you know your breeder than you can trust.

That the insects your getting have been cared for to the best of their ability.

-lower risk of infection or disease. Even though it's still a percentage it would be down right ignorant of me to not say it's not a pro because it has been shown that it is less likely and I think that the studies merit it to be a pro.

-simplicity. Any one who has run around chasing a grasshopper or cricket in the wild will tell you it's far easier to pay someone to do it. Not to mention coming close to the begining of spring when hibernation ends if the wild bugs haven't come out and your pets are ready they will need to eat regardless of inconvenience to your wallet.


Thank you all for taking the time. If you agree disagree have your own insights please by all means let's contribute to the health and vitality of all the creatures in our care or for the needs of our pets care. And a final point this is not a step on toes post I care very deeply about nature and all lives be they flora or fauna and everything in between... sorry for the delay it requires me to wait a moment before making multiple posts...
Ants are life's most successful invaders. Understand and respect that power.

Bierschneeman
Posts: 153
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:11 pm
Location: louisiana

Re: a pro con post of wild vs store bought food.

Post: # 49898Post Bierschneeman
Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:28 pm

good post.
Ill weigh in as someone who approaches this as someone who is, sort of mixed.

First, my other pets, so I can so that I do my research and try to pick the best options for the pet first.

I also have a snake, He eats only frozen mice, I want nothing to do with raising mice for fear of the stink, the revulsion of landowners. BUT I also have a much better reason too. Rodent wounds have a tendency to fester, a cornered rodent will bite scratch and wound your snake, It is much better to feed you snake prekilled....BUT some snakes will refuse to eat prekilled, or frozen. I am very lucky to not have a snake with a death wish.

I have birds, My wife makes "birdie Muffins" which is a mix of fruit, honey, flour, veggies and lots of other healthy bits (and a sparse amount of bird pellets and seed) The seeds are very sparse. most bird species on high seed content will get sluggish, aggresive, lose their shiny feathers, and shortened lifespans.

okay ants. I have purchased feeder insects. My colonies seem uninterested. I can see them eating them, peckishly at best. I am forced to hunt for them. (but most days I give them protein I give them these insects I purchased, I prefer the store bought insects, but cannot rely on the ants eating. I always have to throw the food away, I might have to do away with them completely for the Pheidole, I think I may end up causing a plague outbreak with this food they keep not eating. My next step is to keep the food in for shorter periods of time, and giving them food less often.)

When I have to get wild food, I mainly target invasive species (as you pointed out) Solenopsis invicta queens are immensely abundant and all three colonies GO ABSOLUTELY NUTS FOR THEM. also Mediterranean Geckoes and sri lankan Geckoes. all of these are reeking absolute havoc on the ecosystem here. displacing and wiping out most native species not even in their own kingdom.

When I am not gathering invasive species, I target abundant species, I make sure I know what I am collecting what impact I have, and what pesticides I can expect them to have consumed. wild cockroaches NEVER, they are too full of pesticides. I keep the queens for days before killing them. If they died on there own, I THROW THEM AWAY. I can't be sure they died because of pesticides, but I'd rather them be quarantined first, and be safe if its even possible.

they are all prekilled.

I obviously redraw the line between the two sides when dealing with my feeding habits so I can walk on both sides.

Again thanks for adding this topic.
Founding:
3 Solenopsis I/X
5 Tapinoma sessile
1 Nylanderia terricola/vivulda

Colonies:
1 Brachymyrmex patagonicus
1 Pheidole soritis
1 Tapinoma sessile

The difference between a hobby and a scientific pursuit, is detailed notes.

MorbidBugg
Posts: 285
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:11 pm
Location: Orangeville

Re: a pro con post of wild vs store bought food.

Post: # 49900Post MorbidBugg
Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:57 pm

Bierschneeman wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:28 pm
good post.
Ill weigh in as someone who approaches this as someone who is, sort of mixed.

First, my other pets, so I can so that I do my research and try to pick the best options for the pet first.

I also have a snake, He eats only frozen mice, I want nothing to do with raising mice for fear of the stink, the revulsion of landowners. BUT I also have a much better reason too. Rodent wounds have a tendency to fester, a cornered rodent will bite scratch and wound your snake, It is much better to feed you snake prekilled....BUT some snakes will refuse to eat prekilled, or frozen. I am very lucky to not have a snake with a death wish.

I have birds, My wife makes "birdie Muffins" which is a mix of fruit, honey, flour, veggies and lots of other healthy bits (and a sparse amount of bird pellets and seed) The seeds are very sparse. most bird species on high seed content will get sluggish, aggresive, lose their shiny feathers, and shortened lifespans.

okay ants. I have purchased feeder insects. My colonies seem uninterested. I can see them eating them, peckishly at best. I am forced to hunt for them. (but most days I give them protein I give them these insects I purchased, I prefer the store bought insects, but cannot rely on the ants eating. I always have to throw the food away, I might have to do away with them completely for the Pheidole, I think I may end up causing a plague outbreak with this food they keep not eating. My next step is to keep the food in for shorter periods of time, and giving them food less often.)

When I have to get wild food, I mainly target invasive species (as you pointed out) Solenopsis invicta queens are immensely abundant and all three colonies GO ABSOLUTELY NUTS FOR THEM. also Mediterranean Geckoes and sri lankan Geckoes. all of these are reeking absolute havoc on the ecosystem here. displacing and wiping out most native species not even in their own kingdom.

When I am not gathering invasive species, I target abundant species, I make sure I know what I am collecting what impact I have, and what pesticides I can expect them to have consumed. wild cockroaches NEVER, they are too full of pesticides. I keep the queens for days before killing them. If they died on there own, I THROW THEM AWAY. I can't be sure they died because of pesticides, but I'd rather them be quarantined first, and be safe if its even possible.

they are all prekilled.

I obviously redraw the line between the two sides when dealing with my feeding habits so I can walk on both sides.

Again thanks for adding this topic.
Allow me to respond bottom to top, thank you for the response and contribution. I think it is great that you found some very important things to bring up for both sides. I tend to agree with the both sides of the fence. However I also believe it is important that we don't continue to dance around difficult subjects. Specifically when these subjects are detrimental to the health and well being of those we have adopted into guardianship. Regardless of species. Eventually we will have to put logic passion and fact onto an equal board and come to our own conclusions. And I think it's best if any and all thoughts are presented to the reader. In an unbiased equal opportunity.

I would like to add with the mention of being on both my examples.

Dog, beagle. Historically the most used dog in scientific studies both ethical and unethical. If there's a animal study a beagle was part of it. Armed with the knowledge of research I found that a diet of pure kibble or pure prepared meals had disadvantages and we've mixed real protein with kibble and she is the peak of chubby health.. there is alot of muscle hiding beneath that lair of stored food.

Cats three cats that are so friggen finicky that one will ONLY eat wet food where as the others will eat both but prefer kibble. This gets expensive very quickly. Luckily I'm an avid fisherman and do not mind cooking and catching fish for them. This offsets both sides as they all love fresh fish.

Insects. Okay so this is kind of a trick as some of my insects I raise are for bait such as various flies for maggot fishing down to my ants which will gladly accept a frozen cricket or a maggot fresh from the pile(after a good sanitization of course) and I've noticed that the colony seems less agitatible and don't even try escaping from 'Eden' the pet stores in my area are... sketchy at best to me and driving an hour for food seems redundant. So if I'm going to a reptile show I'll meet up with breeders I've dealt with before and store crickets (I believe the shelf life is 6 months to a year before frostbite set in and nothing would touch them)
Ants are life's most successful invaders. Understand and respect that power.

TheRealAntMan
Posts: 568
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:59 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: a pro con post of wild vs store bought food.

Post: # 49906Post TheRealAntMan
Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:25 pm

I was waiting for someone to start this topic...
An ants' strength can be rivaled by few animals compared to relative body size.

AntsOfOntario
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:06 pm

Re: a pro con post of wild vs store bought food.

Post: # 49907Post AntsOfOntario
Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:28 pm

In my opinion, wild insects initially are nothing but a gamble. I did not know if my yard had been sprayed, or anywhere around me. I just took a chance on a colony that wasn't doing all that well anyway. They seemed to be fine going onto months later. This is when I started feeding all of my colonies a variety of insects from my yard (obviously boiling them first for precaution; to remove anything harmful to the best of my ability). Now up to a year later and all of my colonies are happy and healthy and are loving their diverse diet. I have gone on and off between store bought insects and wild ones and mine personally didn't seem to show much interest in the store bought ones.

In addition to what has been said before, when you purchase store bought insects you also have to go through the process of gut loading them because (personally) these insects have only been living off of damp cardboard. When feeding my ants I try to imagine what I'm really giving them. I think long and hard about why I as a person would enjoy damp cardboard-tasting meat and if I would enjoy eating it primarily... I wouldn't. Therefore it would make no sense for me to be feeding them it.

Anyways, to elaborate on what someone has said above, I would too stay away from coachroaches. They're very good at carrying around harmful things without showing signs of it. I provide my ants with crickets, house spiders, small beetles and fruit flies.

Nonetheless fantastic post with a lot of good points. Excellent job Morbid.

MorbidBugg
Posts: 285
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:11 pm
Location: Orangeville

Re: a pro con post of wild vs store bought food.

Post: # 49925Post MorbidBugg
Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:49 pm

TheRealAntMan wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:25 pm
I was waiting for someone to start this topic...
To be completely honest I was and this is in order shocked, that it wasn't a discussion, a little worried, to start it, and slightly apprehensive, about the most sensitive way to proceed with a constructive foundation to the post. I feel like some of the veteran keepers from both sides of the mindset on the forum have posted, albeit scattered, but very poignant opinions on the subject. And rather than allowing a rift to form I think it's better if in the interest of our pets that we assist each other. So thats why I'm hoping to keep an air of positivity to the discussion and I hope it can evolve into something everyone can respect. Without the harsh attacking of anyone's moral logical and factual mindset. We must also remember in some cases hopefully a growing case more people are becoming ant keepers all around the globe. Some people don't have access to store bought foods while on the other side it seems like over poisoning is the biggest issue. And I think both are actually more identical than were perceiving. But ya I can ramble for days regardless if nothing else I hope this is found to be helpful to SOMEONE in the coming years as ant love continues to grow.
Ants are life's most successful invaders. Understand and respect that power.

cheetawolf
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 11:21 pm
Location: Canada

Re: a pro con post of wild vs store bought food.

Post: # 50446Post cheetawolf
Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:01 pm

i just farm fruit flies as their main source of protien, and any bug i catch or pieces of meat i give them, are just treats.
for sugar i give them honey, sugar water and fruits.

tell me if im doing anything wrong
yay for ants!

keeping
15x lasius niger/americanus

founding
1x tetramorium immigrans

searching for
c. pennsylvanicus

GAN farmer in richmond BC

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