Why are there no wasplike ants.

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Cal113
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:49 pm
Location: Louisville, Co

Why are there no wasplike ants.

Post: # 76992Post Cal113
Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:23 am

Having the ability of flight in workers seems incredibly useful and there are plenty of eusocial insects that have proven this can work, (see all communal wasp and bee species.) SO WHY, have ants never evolved for their workers to be able to fly?

Also maybe they have but I did some quick research and couldn't find a single species that did.
Keeper of:

x3 Tetramorium caespitum queens (small colonies);
x1 Pogonomyrmex barbatus (med colony)
x1 Formica fusca single queen; (small colony)
x2 Unknown sp.; (founding)
x1 Temnothorax rugatalus (med colony)

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AM1C39
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Re: Why are there no wasplike ants.

Post: # 76996Post AM1C39
Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:18 pm

Almost all species of ants can fly. The alates are borne with wings they get rid of them when they do not need them. That is just the way they evolved.
My current colonies:
-Miniature Military(formica neogagates)
-Black Hearts(crematogaster cerasi)
In search of new camponotus colony
[Have a look at antmaps.org]

Cal113
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:49 pm
Location: Louisville, Co

Re: Why are there no wasplike ants.

Post: # 76997Post Cal113
Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:25 pm

AM1C39 wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:18 pm
Almost all species of ants can fly. The alates are borne with wings they get rid of them when they do not need them. That is just the way they evolved.
Yeah I know but that's only for the alates which is a good way to spread out colonies but still very limited and doesn't help at all with foraging. I was asking about the *workers* not the alates, because they aren't the ones that forage. And some colonies will use their alates to forage if they didn't really go out during the nuptial flight but instead of flying they go out and run around like the regular workers. It seems like a massive waste to have the genetics and biology to *be able to create wings* but never use them except for sex.
Keeper of:

x3 Tetramorium caespitum queens (small colonies);
x1 Pogonomyrmex barbatus (med colony)
x1 Formica fusca single queen; (small colony)
x2 Unknown sp.; (founding)
x1 Temnothorax rugatalus (med colony)

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AM1C39
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Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:17 pm
Location: Canada, ON
Contact:

Re: Why are there no wasplike ants.

Post: # 77001Post AM1C39
Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:10 pm

Different creatures evolve different ways, ants developed and adapted to not being able to fly.
My current colonies:
-Miniature Military(formica neogagates)
-Black Hearts(crematogaster cerasi)
In search of new camponotus colony
[Have a look at antmaps.org]

Epiphyte
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:36 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Why are there no wasplike ants.

Post: # 77004Post Epiphyte
Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:35 pm

That's a really interesting question! Maybe it has to do with carrying? Would ants be able to carry the same weight when they fly? How much weight do wasps carry when they fly? It doesn't seem like bees carry that much weight.

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AM1C39
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Re: Why are there no wasplike ants.

Post: # 77005Post AM1C39
Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:22 pm

Sometimes evolution can't be explained.
My current colonies:
-Miniature Military(formica neogagates)
-Black Hearts(crematogaster cerasi)
In search of new camponotus colony
[Have a look at antmaps.org]

Jager89
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:26 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Why are there no wasplike ants.

Post: # 77008Post Jager89
Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:17 pm

Epiphyte wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:35 pm
That's a really interesting question! Maybe it has to do with carrying? Would ants be able to carry the same weight when they fly? How much weight do wasps carry when they fly? It doesn't seem like bees carry that much weight.
A single bee can bring back a pollen load that weighs about 35% of the bee's body weight. They carry much less because to much and they wouldn't be able to fly. I dunno much about wasps because they are omnivores.

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AM1C39
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Re: Why are there no wasplike ants.

Post: # 77010Post AM1C39
Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:52 pm

It seams that ants evolved beater than wasps. You can find more ants outside than wasps and there are many more species of ants. So it seams maybe having no wings is an advantage for them.
My current colonies:
-Miniature Military(formica neogagates)
-Black Hearts(crematogaster cerasi)
In search of new camponotus colony
[Have a look at antmaps.org]

Cal113
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:49 pm
Location: Louisville, Co

Re: Why are there no wasplike ants.

Post: # 77040Post Cal113
Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:04 pm

Yeah, I guess the evolutionary pressure just wasn't high enough to be able to fly. I think its interesting though that they never did since through the alates they already had the ability and were just never selected to do so for the workers.

I wonder if you could breed your own species that was only able to get food at some points of the year if they started to be able to fly. Maybe they could start forcing male alates to go out or something like that. Obviously it'd take a while...
Keeper of:

x3 Tetramorium caespitum queens (small colonies);
x1 Pogonomyrmex barbatus (med colony)
x1 Formica fusca single queen; (small colony)
x2 Unknown sp.; (founding)
x1 Temnothorax rugatalus (med colony)

Jager89
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:26 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Why are there no wasplike ants.

Post: # 77044Post Jager89
Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:02 pm

Cal113 wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:04 pm
Yeah, I guess the evolutionary pressure just wasn't high enough to be able to fly. I think its interesting though that they never did since through the alates they already had the ability and were just never selected to do so for the workers.

I wonder if you could breed your own species that was only able to get food at some points of the year if they started to be able to fly. Maybe they could start forcing male alates to go out or something like that. Obviously it'd take a while...
Actually Ants evolved from ancestors of vespoid wasps during the Cretaceous period. So i would say they just a variation of evolution. Neither are superior to the other.

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