Why are there no wasplike ants.

[cjerg9]

Having the ability of flight in workers seems incredibly useful and there are plenty of eusocial insects that have proven this can work, (see all communal wasp and bee species.) SO WHY, have ants never evolved for their workers to be able to fly?

Also maybe they have but I did some quick research and couldn't find a single species that did.

Well ants evolved from wasps. They evolved to live on the ground and loose their wings. If you think about it the main predators of insects are birds. Where do birds fly? In the sky. If you can imagine ants flying around in such large numbers just imagine how easy they would be for predators to spot in the sky. This is why when queens land after mating the first thing they do is rip off their wings. It makes them very visible and easy to spot on the ground.

[Cal113]

Actually Ants evolved from ancestors of vespoid wasps during the Cretaceous period. So i would say they just a variation of evolution. Neither are superior to the other.

I wasn't trying to infer one was superior. I just think it would be cool to have flying ant workers!

[Cal113]

Well ants evolved from wasps. They evolved to live on the ground and loose their wings. If you think about it the main predators of insects are birds. Where do birds fly? In the sky. If you can imagine ants flying around in such large numbers just imagine how easy they would be for predators to spot in the sky. This is why when queens land after mating the first thing they do is rip off their wings. It makes them very visible and easy to spot on the ground.

Yes but they could have evolved from a not ground dwelling species or they could have less reflective wings, an example would be weaver ants, how they live in trees and they could fly from location to location. I do agree they would likely be more visible. There's probably a lot of reasons they haven't evolved flight. I was just curious on which ones we could come up with and if there could be a case where the benefits might outweigh the negatives.

[cjerg9]

Well ants evolved from wasps. They evolved to live on the ground and loose their wings. If you think about it the main predators of insects are birds. Where do birds fly? In the sky. If you can imagine ants flying around in such large numbers just imagine how easy they would be for predators to spot in the sky. This is why when queens land after mating the first thing they do is rip off their wings. It makes them very visible and easy to spot on the ground.

Yes but they could have evolved from a not ground dwelling species or they could have less reflective wings, an example would be weaver ants, how they live in trees and they could fly from location to location. I do agree they would likely be more visible. There's probably a lot of reasons they haven't evolved flight. I was just curious on which ones we could come up with and if there could be a case where the benefits might outweigh the negatives.

If a bird then does try to pick them off the ground just imagine being swarmed by the rest of the living, angry and biting ants. Not very useful to have a stinger when a bird can just snatch you up in the sky in one go. Being on the ground allows them to be in large number without being spot to easily and it’s also a lot less time consuming to fight on the ground without flying if they do get attacked.

Animals don’t just evolve for no reason, basically a gene mutated allowing ants to have no wings and because this proved effective less members got killed compared to their winged counterparts. This means more wingless members survived and can go onto breed and produce more wingless members. It is called natural selection it’s how we all came to be the way we are.

Being wingless is effective like I said otherwise they wouldn’t be around the way they are. It’s not just reflectiveness, it’s the size and colour of the wings makes it easier to spot aswell. And you cannot shrink your wings otherwise they are too small to fly with.

[Cal113]

If a bird then does try to pick them off the ground just imagine being swarmed by the rest of the living, angry and biting ants. Not very useful to have a stinger when a bird can just snatch you up in the sky in one go. Being on the ground allows them to be in large number without being spot to easily and it’s also a lot less time consuming to fight on the ground without flying if they do get attacked.

Animals don’t just evolve for no reason, basically a gene mutated allowing ants to have no wings and because this proved effective less members got killed compared to their winged counterparts. This means more wingless members survived and can go onto breed and produce more wingless members. It is called natural selection it’s how we all came to be the way we are.

Being wingless is effective like I said otherwise they wouldn’t be around the way they are. It’s not just reflectiveness, it’s the size and colour of the wings makes it easier to spot aswell. And you cannot shrink your wings otherwise they are too small to fly with.

I agree it wouldn't just be reflectivity, I was just using that as an example. It clearly works to be a flying stinging animal as wasps and bees do it. I was just saying its interesting that the usefulness didn't reappear into ants at some point in history

Also you did mention it being faster on the ground, I think that's definitely incorrect because if you think about kicking an ant hill and swatting a wasps nest the wasps deploy and start chasing you way faster. But that's just somethin I wanted to point out.

[Jager89]

Also you did mention it being faster on the ground, I think that's definitely incorrect because if you think about kicking an ant hill and swatting a wasps nest the wasps deploy and start chasing you way faster. But that's just somethin I wanted to point out.

That's only the hive of a wasps nest they rarely travel in hordes to defend themselves while foraging while ants once it has been announced that food is found they swarm. Also some species of ants Invade wasps nests and their ability to fly isn't much help in defense.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUNKQqCRFuQ[/youtube]

[cjerg9]

If a bird then does try to pick them off the ground just imagine being swarmed by the rest of the living, angry and biting ants. Not very useful to have a stinger when a bird can just snatch you up in the sky in one go. Being on the ground allows them to be in large number without being spot to easily and it’s also a lot less time consuming to fight on the ground without flying if they do get attacked.

Animals don’t just evolve for no reason, basically a gene mutated allowing ants to have no wings and because this proved effective less members got killed compared to their winged counterparts. This means more wingless members survived and can go onto breed and produce more wingless members. It is called natural selection it’s how we all came to be the way we are.

Being wingless is effective like I said otherwise they wouldn’t be around the way they are. It’s not just reflectiveness, it’s the size and colour of the wings makes it easier to spot aswell. And you cannot shrink your wings otherwise they are too small to fly with.

I agree it wouldn't just be reflectivity, I was just using that as an example. It clearly works to be a flying stinging animal as wasps and bees do it. I was just saying its interesting that the usefulness didn't reappear into ants at some point in history

Also you did mention it being faster on the ground, I think that's definitely incorrect because if you think about kicking an ant hill and swatting a wasps nest the wasps deploy and start chasing you way faster. But that's just somethin I wanted to point out.

No I never said faster I meant it uses less energy to fight on ground than to swarm and fly.

[Cal113]

it’s also a lot less time consuming to fight on the ground without flying if they do get attacked.

yeah you did mention speed. also yeah, it would be a lot less energy

To the other dud, that's cuz there's hundreds of them, imagine if ants swarmed with hundreds of FLYING ants. It would be even crazier. But either way it gets the job done, hence why they don't seem to have any wings.

[cjerg9]

I read back and I never mentioned speed but that’s okay.