Two Lasius Niger queens, inbred or not?
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Two Lasius Niger queens, inbred or not?
Hi, I'm new to the forum and just as new to ant keeping, so help would be appreciated!
Three days ago the Lasius Niger nests in my area had their nuptual flights. One nest was right outside my backyard door, the place was swarming with queens and drones.
The following morning I caught two wingless queens in my yard and put them into separate tubes. The problem is these queens were caught very close to the nest - and possibly got fertilized by their sibling brother drones, which would be very bad for the future colony health?
As I'm understanding it's better to capture queens far away from nests, but I can't seem to find any in the wild anymore. What are the odds that my captured queens received sibling DNA, am I worrying about this too much?
Kind regards
Three days ago the Lasius Niger nests in my area had their nuptual flights. One nest was right outside my backyard door, the place was swarming with queens and drones.
The following morning I caught two wingless queens in my yard and put them into separate tubes. The problem is these queens were caught very close to the nest - and possibly got fertilized by their sibling brother drones, which would be very bad for the future colony health?
As I'm understanding it's better to capture queens far away from nests, but I can't seem to find any in the wild anymore. What are the odds that my captured queens received sibling DNA, am I worrying about this too much?
Kind regards
- Batspiderfish
- Posts: 3315
- Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:47 pm
- Location: Maine
Re: Two Lasius Niger queens, inbred or not?
Most ants have behavioral mechanisms which prevent inbreeding (and some species of ant exclusively breed with siblings). Either way, it's nothing to worry about.
If you enjoy my expertise and identifications, please do not put wild populations at risk of disease by releasing pet colonies. We are responsible to give our pets the best care we can manage for the rest of their lives.
Re: Two Lasius Niger queens, inbred or not?
Alright, I was a bit worried because I found them within 10 feet of the nest
Thank you
Thank you
Re: Two Lasius Niger queens, inbred or not?
The Queens carry **** packets from several males they mate with, so although they are all sisters in a nest, there are always several fathers. Also workers sometimes lay eggs, for sure in the case of a Queen death. All the worker eggs create exact clones of their father, and never a queen. I expect many of the males are born this way, it's just not often observed.
So in that case the prince males would be more likely totally unrelated to the females princesses in the same nest.
They pretty much ensure genetic diversity in many other neat ways than mammals do, so inbreeding is definitely not a concern with ants.
- Batspiderfish
- Posts: 3315
- Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:47 pm
- Location: Maine
Re: Two Lasius Niger queens, inbred or not?
Almost true. While it's correct that males only have half the chromosomes that a female ant would, those chromosomes are drawn from the mother or father of the ant which laid the egg. There's also no guarantee that all of the chromosomes inherited by a male come from just their grandfather or grandmother -- it's usually a mix of both, so long as there is one set in the end. Since half of the DNA of a male's sister comes from the father which the colony's queen mated with, a male is generally 25% genetically similar to any of the female ants in the nest. There are, of course, exceptions to this rule.Wardword wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:37 amThe Queens carry **** packets from several males they mate with, so although they are all sisters in a nest, there are always several fathers. Also workers sometimes lay eggs, for sure in the case of a Queen death. All the worker eggs create exact clones of their father, and never a queen. I expect many of the males are born this way, it's just not often observed.
So in that case the prince males would be more likely totally unrelated to the females princesses in the same nest.
They pretty much ensure genetic diversity in many other neat ways than mammals do, so inbreeding is definitely not a concern with ants.
If you enjoy my expertise and identifications, please do not put wild populations at risk of disease by releasing pet colonies. We are responsible to give our pets the best care we can manage for the rest of their lives.
Re: Two Lasius Niger queens, inbred or not?
I read though when a queen dies, and a colony is queen-less, at least in some species, the worker females will lay eggs that produce males only, and those males will be genetic clones of said workers father.Batspiderfish wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:04 amAlmost true. While it's correct that males only have half the chromosomes that a female ant would, those chromosomes are drawn from the mother or father of the ant which laid the egg. There's also no guarantee that all of the chromosomes inherited by a male come from just their grandfather or grandmother -- it's usually a mix of both, so long as there is one set in the end. Since half of the DNA of a male's sister comes from the father which the colony's queen mated with, a male is generally 25% genetically similar to any of the female ants in the nest. There are, of course, exceptions to this rule.Wardword wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:37 amThe Queens carry **** packets from several males they mate with, so although they are all sisters in a nest, there are always several fathers. Also workers sometimes lay eggs, for sure in the case of a Queen death. All the worker eggs create exact clones of their father, and never a queen. I expect many of the males are born this way, it's just not often observed.
So in that case the prince males would be more likely totally unrelated to the females princesses in the same nest.
They pretty much ensure genetic diversity in many other neat ways than mammals do, so inbreeding is definitely not a concern with ants.
Re: Two Lasius Niger queens, inbred or not?
Wardword wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:10 pmI read though when a queen dies, and a colony is queen-less, at least in some species, the worker females will lay eggs that produce male breeding elates only, and those males will be genetic clones of said workers father.Batspiderfish wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:04 amAlmost true. While it's correct that males only have half the chromosomes that a female ant would, those chromosomes are drawn from the mother or father of the ant which laid the egg. There's also no guarantee that all of the chromosomes inherited by a male come from just their grandfather or grandmother -- it's usually a mix of both, so long as there is one set in the end. Since half of the DNA of a male's sister comes from the father which the colony's queen mated with, a male is generally 25% genetically similar to any of the female ants in the nest. There are, of course, exceptions to this rule.Wardword wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:37 amThe Queens carry **** packets from several males they mate with, so although they are all sisters in a nest, there are always several fathers. Also workers sometimes lay eggs, for sure in the case of a Queen death. All the worker eggs create exact clones of their father, and never a queen. I expect many of the males are born this way, it's just not often observed.
So in that case the prince males would be more likely totally unrelated to the females princesses in the same nest.
They pretty much ensure genetic diversity in many other neat ways than mammals do, so inbreeding is definitely not a concern with ants.
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