NEED HELP! Newbie and Flavus queens!!

[DeanMontague]

Hi everyone,

I am new here and new to ant keeping. i've spent hours upon hours trawling the internet but thought it would be best to get some help here from experienced people as I believe my questions can't be answered online.

I have been carefully watching a large lasius flavus (meadow ant) colony in my garden who use the underside of one of my solar lights as one of their chambers - they've been there 2 years. This year I noticed my dog causing a fuss around an area, and i went out to check, and saw their queen chambers had been opened and they were flying. I thought it was a good time for me to catch my first queen (i had no equipment, nothing ready, had no intention of keeping ants at that point, but always loved them) Anyway, i saw two queens who had no wings literally inches from the opening of their chamber - i figured she won't last long because there wasn't much space in that are already - so i caught her, and a second one. neither had wings.

I put the two queens and scooped up a handful of existing workers and put them into a tupperware box with a bit of soil (my first mistake) i thought because the queens had come from the existing nest, the ants would accept them. i noticed they were attacking them and i scooped up the workers and released them back near the old nest. I had no test tubes or formicarium. I thought i could skip test tube stage and replicate what they would do in the wild. I used a deep tupperware box and filled it with soil, it was maybe 10x10, and put a narrow tube in the middle to push the soil to the walls, thinking they'd be forced to the outside walls and i'd see their tunnels. I put both queens in here, with a small water dish, some honey soaked wool and half a mealworm (i knew they wouldn't eat but wanted to be sure) they both buried into the soil within the first day and i never saw them again. (i drilled holes into the lid)

That was 10 weeks ago. I left them knowing it would be 8 weeks before i potentially saw the first worker. time passed, i got impatient, i thought, if there's no sign of workers yet, they could be starving as they are buried with no food. I started digging around gently to see any sign of them, none, so i kept going, looking for eggs, none. The soil was quite moist, i watered it, it was almost soggy the deeper i went, and i'm wondering now if they needed a dryer area. I eventually dug until I found one queen, with no signs of eggs around her, it had been about 10 weeks and i thought it isn't right there's no eggs or brood, i found little orange capsule like things which I assumed was waste - i knew their eggs were white not orange - or it could have been part of the soil matter i put in there (it was just potting soil). Anyway, i rescued both queens, realised i screwed up by putting them straight into a 'formicarium' and put them in a smaller tupperware again until my test tubes arrived, to my surprise the queens had burrowed not far from each other at all, i'd say a few cm's apart (but not together) because originally i couldn't keep them together, they seemed to want to be apart from each other - i knew flavus could have multiple queens. Anyway, i put some food in (honey and mealworm again) and some water, they weren't interested, they started trying to burrow in the shallow layer of soil again.

My test tubes arrived and i did the proper setup, water, wool, etc. Although the test tube is only 80mmx13mm, on the smaller side, but since they're small queens i figured it's fine. I put them in my draw and left them.

My worry now is - i don't know if they've found anything to eat in the soil matter i put in the original formicarium or not, but aren't they going to be starving? it's been maybe 10/11 weeks now since i caught them - and no eggs - and now i'm worried they're hibernating instead. Are they not fertile? they had no wings... I've kept the test tubes apart rather than 2 in 1, 1 of the queens has a dint in her abdomem which looks unusual and i have a feeling i'll be lucky to find one that has brood let alone 2 at this rate. I don't know what to do, they seem fine in the tubes now, their antennas are moving but they're not, they're near the water side of the test tube, but aren't they starving?? how long can they go without food? if they hibernate, and don't come around until march, it'll be like 6 months without food - how is that possible? is it possible for them to survive? should i put a small piece of mealworm in the test tube? or honey? i don't want to promote any mould early on as i don't want to have to move them to a new test tube for a while now, conscious that they've been stressed from it all... will they lay eggs in november if my house is relatively warm?

Thanks so much in advance and sorry for this long winded post - i'm planning on buying a proper formicarium for them when they get going but obviously not until then - any help is appreciated

[Antloverhuman]

Lasius flavus are fully claustral and they don't need food. The orange capsule thing sounded like cocoons but could be something in the soil. Check the same soil you used to see if those things are I there. If they aren't then it probably means you threw their cocoons which if pretty bad. You can give them little bit of honey. If they eat it it means they don't have any of the wing muscle soup and need food so if they eat honey give it to them every week and clean up. Queens don't move alot to save energy so don't worry. They should go in hibernation in which case you don't need to feed them( though I don't know alot about feeding ant in hibernation as I'm from area where ants don't hibernate. Maybe wait for someone else who knows more about hibernation to tell you)

[DeanMontague]

i did spend a good while fine combing the soil for eggs - i've even still got the soil so could probably take a picture of it - i'm pretty sure it was some part of the soil matter that was absorbing the water - they were literally orange. i thought at the 10 week mark, noticeable pupae would be there. I'll have another look through the soil and see if anything is more obvious - but they were tiny (pin-head sized) and nothing bigger, at 10 weeks i'd thought there'd be something more obvious. Either way i couldn't leave them in there, it wasn't suitable for them. I did 'put' what i thought could have been orange eggs in the small tupperware box before the test tubes just incase they cared for them still or got rid of them - they didn't seem to be bothered about it, which makes me think it was organic matter or some of kind thing in the soil.

i know they're full claustral, but 10 weeks no food seems really long, will they have enough energy to even lay now, if at all with it being november? I'll try a drop of honey on tin foil.

these were late nuptial queens, late august, 22nd i think, can i avoid them hibernating??

[DeanMontague]

Also - i only keep dried mealworms from a protein point of view - can i give them anything else? the mealsworms i have are dried which i've just read are bad for them, if i soak them a bit in water first will it be better for them or just not enough protein? i'm thinking of protein alternatives readily in the house

[Antloverhuman]

I don't think the queen would eat any insects right now. In the wild flavus wait through hibernation so if their species has survived till today it means nature has given them everything they need. But you can feed them honey as they are probably stressed . You can feed them mosquito if you want. I just kill them and give them to my ants

[DeanMontague]

update; i gave them both a drop of maple syrup (my honey ran out) on a small square of tin foil - the first queen started eating it right away and the second hasn't yet - i think that's a good sign, also a sign of not hibernating right if they're eating? i really want to leave them undisturbed but will need to check on the foil so it doesn't go mouldy in there

[DeanMontague]

Bumping for any more opinions/help with this

Is it possible I’ve caught two parasitic queens? I don’t know how to tell the difference between lasius flavus and lasius neoniger which I’ve seen are a similar shade

They’ve been in test tubes for 2 days now but no sign of eggs

[AntsLuxembourg]

Since you asked for an extra opinion, I tried to read through most of your text but I skipped some parts because of the length.
So first. I don't know how fast maple syrup molds if it even does mold but it's already good that one queen drank some of it. For protein you could offer them a little bit of a mealworm. They need that to lay more eggs. Also even if the other queen didn't seem to have tried some syrup, she probably took a little nibble unless you recorded her somehow.
Now if you put a droplet of honey in the testtube there shouldn't be any issue leaving it. Honey itself doesn't mold even if it looks like molding, it could be that it's actually just crystalizing.

Anyway it was a nice idea with the dirt nest, however ants normally never play the way we want them to. So testtubes are normally the better option.
Plus it would take a long time before the colony would show themselfs.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

[DeanMontague]

Thank you! That’s really helpful

Yes, I’m going to leave the drop of maple syrup in for a week or so and see how they get on. I might try adding some small protein piece just incase - however I only have dried mealworms. I heard they need freshly killed ones? Do you know if I can wet them to soften them up or is it crap.

Secondly, do you know much about hibernation? I’m wondering if they’ll lay eggs this time of year? I’m in the UK.

[AntsLuxembourg]

Thank you! That’s really helpful

Yes, I’m going to leave the drop of maple syrup in for a week or so and see how they get on. I might try adding some small protein piece just incase - however I only have dried mealworms. I heard they need freshly killed ones? Do you know if I can wet them to soften them up or is it crap.

Secondly, do you know much about hibernation? I’m wondering if they’ll lay eggs this time of year? I’m in the UK.

Soften them up will not do much. Most protein is already destroyed by boiling, frying, drying, etc. so it's not going to have too much proteins that are left. However you can buy mealworms and keep them in your fridge. No food or water needed. I have my mealworms since about a year (or at least the previous batch) and they stay alive for very long. You should only get ride of those that turn black and stiff, except if they start movement after a few seconds under normal room temperatur.

For hibernation it depends on the species. Usually they will stop laying eggs around this time. If they are not larvae or puppae already the eggs might just die off while in the cold. Lasius Flavus are hibernating from end of October until the end of March at 5-8°C (Fridge Temperaturs). Maybe put a thermometer in your fridge and try to put your colony in a colder spot around 15°C for at least a day or a week to give them time to adjust. After that put them in your fridge. Preferably inside a box that is couchened by cloth and closed to keep the light out.

Anything else?