Hi, I'm new! Where is the law?

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SpeciesK
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Hi, I'm new! Where is the law?

Post: # 16209Post SpeciesK
Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:13 pm

I am new. I don't know anything! I don't know anyone who has ants including queens. AntsCanada says its illegal to transport native queens between States or Provinces. Okay! No problem! But I cannot find any such law. Can you direct me? :?:

I was looking thru different posts here and someone posted this link about getting a permit to keep them:
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant-health ... ndex.shtml

But when I look at that official APHIS presentation, it does not include native ants as "pest species" and part of it said something about transporting some common arthropods between states is not forbidden or require a permit. :?:

So, what/where is the law that is being referred to? Everything is posted online so I'm sure you all know exactly where to look! Thank!

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KingKyle26
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Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Hi, I'm new! Where is the law?

Post: # 16210Post KingKyle26
Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:44 pm

Ants are different due to the queen being able to start large colonies completely on their own. While I don't know locations to find these laws, common sense should clearly indicate that even if these laws weren't in existence, you shouldn't do it. Transportation of native ants to states that have that species too can be disasterous. Tetramorium Sp. E is actually a complex of many different species and bringing a new type of that species to an area could have drastic effects. In case you doubt these "drastic effects". R.I.F.A is a perfect ant example and the "stink bug" is another non ant example.
Raising:
-Tapinoma Sessile
Founding:
-Crematogaster Lineolata
-Solenopsis Molesta
-Lasius Neoniger

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KingKyle26
Posts: 95
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Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Hi, I'm new! Where is the law?

Post: # 16211Post KingKyle26
Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:49 pm

Ants can and will escape much more often than you'd think so even if you had enough credentials and experience to be authorized to have a permit, you shouldn't keep foreign ants. Your wants aren't more important than the local ecosystem. If you really want to keep a foreign species that bad, the best solution is to move there. But for most of us, the ants living right where we are, are enough.
Raising:
-Tapinoma Sessile
Founding:
-Crematogaster Lineolata
-Solenopsis Molesta
-Lasius Neoniger

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Batspiderfish
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Location: Maine

Re: Hi, I'm new! Where is the law?

Post: # 16212Post Batspiderfish
Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:39 am

It is mostly covered by the Plant Protection Act, which forbids the importation of plant pests. Ants are either direct pests of plants by damaging crops, or indirect pests by causing significant harm to plant commensal/mutualistic symbionts.

If you're new to the hobby, you definitely need to learn about your local ants before worrying about exotic ones.
Links:
Rules & Requirements for Identification:
http://forum.AntsCanada.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=292

How to take pictures for identification:
http://forum.AntsCanada.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=2167

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Batspiderfish
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Location: Maine

Re: Hi, I'm new! Where is the law?

Post: # 16214Post Batspiderfish
Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:55 am

Not to mention that ants are accomplished aphid farmers.

Nonnative ants like Solenopsis invicta cause billions of dollars in damage to crops every year.
Links:
Rules & Requirements for Identification:
http://forum.AntsCanada.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=292

How to take pictures for identification:
http://forum.AntsCanada.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=2167

SpeciesK
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:45 am
Location: Right Here--------v

Re: Hi, I'm new! Where is the law?

Post: # 16215Post SpeciesK
Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:54 am

Oh No! :shock:
I have ZERO interest in keeping foreign ants!
I have ZERO interest in importing anything!
I have zero interest in keeping any foreign insects!
:!:
That is why that permit thing seemed to not apply to my situation. I only want one native ant colony, the bigger the kind of ant the better so they are easier to see. But a colony of tiny ants would be just as good to me. There are no GAN farmers listed in my state, and so I was told AntsCanada could not sell me any. Disappointing but not the end of the world. There are a few far away in other states that seem to have species also native here. That doesn't really help me though even if it was okay. And it's winter so everything is hibernating, right? So I want to read the actual laws, if there are any, that control moving native ant queens around the country. Maybe all of you are doing something illegal without realizing it (I really doubt that :roll: ) by even keeping colonies of ants. So, I want to find out as much as I possibly can about anything connected to it _before_ I do it. :geek: If any State was going to do something dumb about keeping an ant colony I think it would be my bland, boring state. :P So I need to read the actual laws, if there are any, that might control keeping native (not foreign) species. Ya know? :ugeek:
And I didn't know "species e" was actually several species. I thought it just hadn't been described and given an official name yet. I kinda hoped to have that if nothing else since I thought they were supposed to be everywhere and easy to take care of. :| I am uncertain how big they are. Carpenter ants would be ideal to me since they are big, but I am not picky so if they are those teeny ants you see eating dropped candy on sidewalks then that's okay. But if they are sparrow sized monstrosities :shock: then that might be too big, though extremely interesting. :D

SpeciesK
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:45 am
Location: Right Here--------v

Re: Hi, I'm new! Where is the law?

Post: # 16216Post SpeciesK
Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:34 am

:?: That's interesting. I was going to add a little to my last post and change the spelling to "Species E" like you did but it says I cannot edit (or delete) it. I tend to miss errors in my spelling the first time around :oops: so I usually go back and correct it later, since I am a semi-grammar-freak. :geek: Now I am intimidated by needing perfection the first time around... :cry:
A long time ago there were two ant colonies, in the ground in an area, that were maybe ten feet apart. One was big black ants (black Carpenter ants?) and one was big red ants (red Carpenter ants?) and at least one of them had a big chunk of log buried where the opening was. They were interesting to watch sometimes and we would put one of each by the other's entrance. They each didn't like the other kind but the red ones seemed "meaner" somehow. Eventually the area was destroyed and the ants all died. It was kinda sad to see them disappear. I have tried burying chunks of logs places but ants never find them I guess. I didn't realize most ants eat insects, that never occurred to me until now. I thought they were vegetarians. :)

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Batspiderfish
Posts: 1783
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:47 pm
Location: Maine

Re: Hi, I'm new! Where is the law?

Post: # 16230Post Batspiderfish
Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:45 am

Ahh, glad you are starting out the hobby right, then. :D

Like KingKyle said, just because two ants in two different places have the same name doesn't mean that they are the same ant. A chihuahua and a gray wolf are, both, of the species Canis lupus.
Links:
Rules & Requirements for Identification:
http://forum.AntsCanada.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=292

How to take pictures for identification:
http://forum.AntsCanada.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=2167

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KingKyle26
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:21 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Hi, I'm new! Where is the law?

Post: # 16841Post KingKyle26
Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:06 pm

Can a mod please remove those above comments. Before too many people see them. Ban that user too.
Raising:
-Tapinoma Sessile
Founding:
-Crematogaster Lineolata
-Solenopsis Molesta
-Lasius Neoniger

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Serafine
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Location: Germany

Re: Hi, I'm new! Where is the law?

Post: # 16854Post Serafine
Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:03 pm

SpeciesK wrote:I didn't realize most ants eat insects, that never occurred to me until now. I thought they were vegetarians. :)
Some of them (like the entire Messor genus) are, although they eat dead insects as well if they find one. And there are actually studies that suggest that harvester ants can benefit agriculture because they way the burry up the ground outweighs the seeds they consume.
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