Messor Barbarus?

[ScaryBuh]

Hello guys!

I recently caught a few queen ants. I asked AntsCanada what species it was and because I didn't provided enough info, he come up and said Crematogaster (the queen does look like a Crematogaster Cerasi).



but because I'm from Portugal (we don't have Crematogaster species based on http://antmaps.org/? ), we have Messor ones.
The workers on my colonies don't have heart shaped abdomen, they are more like a Messor (harvester ants, big size, major workers have reddish head).
Queen ant size about 10mm.



What you guys think?

[jsCoder]

Hello! On first video queen it's not like messor, most likely this Crematogaster sp. (species don't know), On second video it's messor, but not the messor barbarus. Barbarus have rich red - dark red head, and queen min 16mm

[pedrovicentebp]

nope yes it is a crematogaster take a look at this
http://www.antwiki.org/wiki/Crematogaster_species_by_Country#Portugal
yes they are cramtogaster in Portugal and that it isnt on a page it dosnt mean it cant be

[Batspiderfish]

There are four Crematogaster spp. listed on antmaps.org for Portugal.

[ScaryBuh]

Thanks for the feedback guys!
I did miss those 4 crematogaster species in Portugal. Thanks for pointing that out!

Anyway... the question continues, because the minor and major workers of the colonies are so similar to messor, they carry lots of seeds and are big, around 5-12mm.

Check this other film where you can see the Alates at 23s, which are the same type of the ones I caught. What species are that colony?


I'm not trying to force it to be a messor, I just want to be sure of what species this is, that's why this is the Identification thread. I find more cues that tend to messor than crematogasters.
If you think they are crematogaster, where are the details you based off your assumption? Is it the size of the queen? Color?

Cheers!

[Batspiderfish]

Crematogaster have monomorphic workers. The ants you are observing with majors are not Crematogaster. Your queen does not look like Messor, based on the shape of the gaster and the angle that the post-petiole attaches to it.

[ScaryBuh]

This seems to be conflicting and I'm confused now.

Here are more movies of the same species queens I've been catching, they all come from this colonies of
polymorphic workers, harvester ants, ground digging, not agressive ants, they only bite if you grab them, no acid spray.
These colonies are not rare, they seem to be native here in Portugal (at 100km distance from those colonies, I still find others like them).





I accept that the queens I caught look like crematogaster queens, about 10mm size (relatively small for a messor queen)

Here's what messing with me:
1- These queens are of the same species of the first movie posted right?

In Portugal there are only 4 types of crematogaster (native), let's compare them to my queens,

2- crematogaster sordidula -
http://www.lamarabunta.org/4images/data/media/369/C_sordidula_poliginica.jpg
The queens I caught do seem like this one, but I never saw workers like this ones, heart shaped abdomen, with black and brown stripes.

3- crematogaster algirica -
Didn't found much information about them.

4- crematogaster scutellaris -
http://www.ants-kalytta.com/images/products/crsc0001-2.jpg
Red head queen, workers with heart shaped abdomen.

5- crematogaster auberti
http://www.hormigas.org/xEspecies/Crematogaster%20auberti.htm
The queen does look like mines, but the workers are brown, contradictory to what I found.

6- in Wikipedia, about crematogaster ants,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crematogaster

"(ants) which are characterised by a distinctive heart-shaped gaster (abdomen)"
- Again, I never saw any heart shaped gasters on any ants where I caught my queens from.

" Most of species are arboreal."
- These ants live underground.

"Acrobat ants acquire food largely through predation of other insects, like wasps.[5] They use venom to stun their prey"
- The ones I encounter only bite and they don't care much for insects, they seem to prefer seeds.

7 -
The conflicting thing is, my Queen looks like a crematogaster but comes from a messor alike colony?
I can't accept that my queen comes from some different species colony because I was there, taped and saw them getting ready for nupcial flight some 12-24h after it rained (it rained on Wednesday, 2016-10-12). The entrances to the nests were expanded to let the alates out. Later I caught the queens without wings that were searching for hideout nearby (5-100m) 24-48h after that rainy day (by Thursday and Friday there was a swarm of queens all over university campus).

8- Maybe I just need to wait and see what kind of workers my queens will give birth?


Sorry if this is getting controversial... but I'm trying to learn more about my ants

Ant Love

[Batspiderfish]

If you are concerned about your queen's identity, take photographs. Videos are not so great for ID's, because you can't easily crop/zoom and the image quality is not as good.

The queens in that other video are Messor, and do not look the same as this queen. But, again, it is a video.

Just because you find a queen near another ant doesn't mean they are the same. You also don't have know the location of a colony in order to see its alates.

[Batspiderfish]

It also looks like the queen in the top video has propodeal spines, which are very small on Messor.

[ScaryBuh]

Thanks a lot Batspiderfish!

That first queen ant I caught didn't come in the same batch of the other ones.
So yes, good news, I may be keeping 2 types of ants now! Crematogaster and Messor

I still have some photographs of that first queen.








She has dig her hole in the dirt and I'm patiently waiting her nanitics to come out (I didn't had any test tubes back then)
Thanks for having patience with me, I learned a lot