School project questions

[antPWS]

Hi there!
I'm from The Netherlands, so in advance sorry for my bad English. I don't know if I made this topic in the correct category? If not, feel free to move it!

I need to do a project for school and I chose to experiment with ants. And now I have a few questions about it.

I want to experiment with ants and their pheromone trails (fastest path). Something like the Double Bridge Experiment, in context with Ant Colony Optimization (ACO). I caught 5 Lasius niger queens and they have between 5-15 workers, but that's not nearly enough to experiment with. I also had a little Lasius flavus colony, but they never really grew and when I was away for 3 weeks (no worries they got fed) the queen died . My question is, could I use Messor barbarus for this experiment? They are the easiest to get hold of "second-hand", with bigger colonies not being to pricey. And if I could use Messor barbarus, how big of a colony would I need (worker wise)?

If you know other fun pheromone experiments please let me know!

Thanks in advance!

[AntsLuxembourg]

It sounds more like you would need to borrow someone's ant colonies since it can take a long long time to grow a decent sized colony for your project. The question is for when is your project due? If you need to do a presentation in December then it could be really difficult because most ants will hibernate around that time.

[antPWS]

Yeah it is due in December I believe.

I think you're from Luxembourg so maybe you have heard about it, but is it for my profielwerkstuk.

I know that it takes a long time for a colony to reach a decent size, but I don't think that I can borrow someone's colony. I don't know were to ask either. I tried to register on a Dutch ant forum but never got an confirmation email.

But could a Messor barbarus colony work? If it would have like 400 workers?

Thanks for your reply!

[AntsLuxembourg]

Yeah it is due in December I believe.

I think you're from Luxembourg so maybe you have heard about it, but is it for my profielwerkstuk.

I know that it takes a long time for a colony to reach a decent size, but I don't think that I can borrow someone's colony. I don't know were to ask either. I tried to register on a Dutch ant forum but never got an confirmation email.

But could a Messor barbarus colony work? If it would have like 400 workers?

Thanks for your reply!

The problem is, most ants will hibernate in December. Messor Barbarus needs 15-16°C during their hibernation / slow period and anything below that might kill them. This means they would not actively look for seeds which might influence your project. You might want to try a species that doesn't hibernate or consider to ask to do a different project.

Wouldn't it be more interesting perhaps to do a project about ants in general? For example going through some of the main species that are well known (Harvester Ants, Fire Ants, Leaf Cutter Ants, Slave Maker Ants) and also cover some of the more special species (Vampire / Dracula Ants, Gamergate Ants)?

I wouldn't mind to help you get some information and material. You could also reach out to the Berlin AntStore in case they want to provide you with some material or join your presentation. That would be for a later step tho.

[antPWS]

Thanks again for your reply!

I saw someone selling a Messor barbarus colony with around 400/500 workers. If I could get that colony like next week. And then say in another 2 weeks do my experiment, could that work out?

Could I skip de hibernating period once by keeping the temperature up? I tried to Google it but people were saying different things so I'm confused. I don't know how bad skipping the hibernating period once would be?

I am looking into non-hibernating species, but those are mostly really exotic species. I don't think that I can easily get hold of those, and I believe they're not really for beginner ant keepers.

I will look into the Berlin AntStore!

I would like to do it about ants in general, but I believe I have to hand in some practical stuff too. When I see my teacher next week, I'll ask him tho.

Sorry for all the questions, it's just at the moment I can't really ask someone else . My teacher doesn't know a thing about ants, it's all up to the students to gather information for their project. That's why this is quite an important project.

[Polyrhachiskeeper]

Alle mieren hebben pheromone trails.

[AntsLuxembourg]

Thanks again for your reply!

I saw someone selling a Messor barbarus colony with around 400/500 workers. If I could get that colony like next week. And then say in another 2 weeks do my experiment, could that work out?

Could I skip de hibernating period once by keeping the temperature up? I tried to Google it but people were saying different things so I'm confused. I don't know how bad skipping the hibernating period once would be?

I am looking into non-hibernating species, but those are mostly really exotic species. I don't think that I can easily get hold of those, and I believe they're not really for beginner ant keepers.

I will look into the Berlin AntStore!

I would like to do it about ants in general, but I believe I have to hand in some practical stuff too. When I see my teacher next week, I'll ask him tho.

Sorry for all the questions, it's just at the moment I can't really ask someone else . My teacher doesn't know a thing about ants, it's all up to the students to gather information for their project. That's why this is quite an important project.

2 weeks should be enough for your colony to settle. The biggest issue that I can see is, for when you need bring your colony to the place where you do your presentation and everything. You need to know that messor Barbarus are sensitiv to vibrations. Meaning that moving them will be stressful for your queen.

As for hibernation, you don't need to hibernate them but it will obviously give your queen a nice break. I myself cannot hibernate due to living in an appartment and also because I cannot cool down just one room to stay at 15-16°C

The biggest problem for you that I can see is that your colony might freeze to death if you leave the colony inside of the place where you do your presentation and the room / area isn't heated. They are not adjusted to deal with cold temperaturs like Lasius niger or some other winter ant species. For example, some species are able to be active during winter at freezing temperaturs but those live in areas like canada, russia or the nordic countries.

If you get the Messor Barbarus colony, you could prepare an experiment, where you connect different lengths of tubes and have the ants run to their food. You should prepare some seeds for them that they will most likely collect quickly. For example dandelion, Raspberry, Strawberry or Blueberry seeds.

Those seem to be the favourites of my colony at least. But if you do a general Info stand about ants you could also just wait for your ants to collect stuff. They might however be much less activ in december. I didn't pay attention on my colony during their hibernation period, mainly because they don't need much attention to be honest. They barely need any water. I water their big tank maybe once in 3 months and their water testtube gets barely touched. They sometimes start to cover it in dirt.

Some advise I can give you is, go and ask people, what questions they have about ants. Pick some of those interesting questions and try to find answers for them. This way you can gather informations about ants based on what people don't know.
Of course we can help you but to be also fair, you need to do your part of the job / work. Otherwise I don't think I will offer too much of my help and advise. I mean if I do all the work, then it wouldn't be your project. Naturally it's not forbidden to ask for help of such a subject since you might not know how to find and interpret the information you need.

[antPWS]

I will do the experiment at home in a heated room, so freezing to death will not happen.

the report (is that the correct term?) of my experiment is due in december. The presentation is later on in the year. I believe I don't necessarily have to bring the ants to the presentation, but of course that would be nice. If it's bad for the Messor barbarus colony then I won't bring them. Would like to bring at least my little Lasius niger colonies, so people can have a look at them.

I was already thinking about carving out a little maze in an Y-tong block. Although tubes would be easier .

Thanks for the seed recommendations!

School starts in about 4 days, so than I will be able to ask my teacher about the presentation and the project.

I know I need to do my own research . My Google search history if filled with ant related stuff LOL. I'm all into ant keeping now Thinking about getting a little Camponotus nicobarensis colony just for fun.

Asking people what they want to know is a good idea!

Out of curiosity how big is your Messor barbarus colony?

[AntsLuxembourg]

I will do the experiment at home in a heated room, so freezing to death will not happen.

the report (is that the correct term?) of my experiment is due in december. The presentation is later on in the year. I believe I don't necessarily have to bring the ants to the presentation, but of course that would be nice. If it's bad for the Messor barbarus colony then I won't bring them. Would like to bring at least my little Lasius niger colonies, so people can have a look at them.

I was already thinking about carving out a little maze in an Y-tong block. Although tubes would be easier .

Thanks for the seed recommendations!

School starts in about 4 days, so than I will be able to ask my teacher about the presentation and the project.

I know I need to do my own research . My Google search history if filled with ant related stuff LOL. I'm all into ant keeping now Thinking about getting a little Camponotus nicobarensis colony just for fun.

Asking people what they want to know is a good idea!

Out of curiosity how big is your Messor barbarus colony?

About my colony I got some good and some bad news.
Good news is I could give you my messor barbarus colony. Setup and everything, of course if you would pay for the material costs and pick it up.
Bad news is I found my messor barbarus queen dead by coincidence as she was dragged around by a worker ant.

To be honest I was thinking about it for a longer time but I also didn't want to part with the colony since the queen was still alive. Now I know she's gone so I don't mind to give the workers away. Should be a few thousand ants and I'm sure the colony will live for another 2 years. At least the workers will. Let me know via PM if you think about it then I can make an estimate of what the whole setup + food (seeds) + other stuff would cost.

I propose this since during one of my experiments with a few workers who lost their queen, I know the workers can handle so much more compared to the queen and usually colonies die out quick (within a few months) without their egg laying queen. Also I would feel better to give the remaining workers a purpose rather than letting them die off one by one over such a long period of time. Your school project coincidentally might just have come in the right moment at the right time. The only think you need to consider is if driving to Luxembourg to pick everything up would be too much trouble for you or not.

As I said, please let me know in a PM to discuss the details.

[antPWS]

I sent you a PM, don't know if you got it? I don't know how this forum works LOL